Showing posts with label Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Show all posts

Sunday, April 19, 2015

Did the Schochenmaiers speak Franconian or Swabian German?

After we mapped the spouses' ancestors of the first Schochenmaiers married in Russia, we concluded here that our forefathers could either speak Franconian dialect (Franconian of Mosel river near France) or Swabian (in our case it's area between Stuttgart and Heilbronn).

Here is the map of some dialects:

High German dialects in 1945 from wikipedia no copyright.png
High German dialects.
Austro-Bavarian dialects are in blue colours:
North Bavarian (7), Central or Danube Bavarian (8), and South Bavarian (9).
Swabian-Alemannic dialects are in red colours.
Two Franconian dialects are in green colours.
(Courtesy Wikipedia.)


How can we check it out? How could we find out it precisely? I think I need your help.

Below you'll find two videos with examples of those two dialects. If you do remember how your parents or grandparents spoke German between them, please, be so kind to comment what dialect it could be. I do understand that it's very subjective, but, however, it could help. By the way, if you are not a Schochenmaier, but your ancestors are from the Berezan Colony (Russian Empire, 19th century), then your help is appreciated.


Example of Swabian (in German Schwäbisch):



Example of Franconian (in German Fränkisch):




Thank you in advance for your help. 

Saturday, March 21, 2015

Mapping spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers


As I demonstrated in the last four posts that due to the history of Germany, namely feudal disunity, it's logical to assume that our ancestors would marry a fellow villager, a neighbor, anybody who they could communicate with, who they speak the same dialect with, and who they share a similar background with. It does concern the language, the religion, the traditions and the area as well.

Let's sum up and map what we found out. It looks like follow:



1. Gottlieb Schochenmaier (ab. 1828, my 4th great grandfather!!!) was married twice.


  •  to Katharina Huber, who was born on June 26, 1836 in Brücken (Pfalz). It is an Ortsgemeinde – a municipality belonging to a Verbandsgemeinde, a kind of collective municipality – in the Kusel district in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany.
  • to Elisabeth Korb who was born on August 15, 1834 in Rohrbach (Beresan colony, near Odessa, South Russia). Her parents were Heinrich Korb (1809 - ????) and Christina Schneck (1817-1901). Heinrich Korb is to be found among the first newborn babies of "Russian" Rohrbach in year 1809!!! His parents were Heinrich Korb (1777-1836) and Salomea Elisabetha (maid name unknown, abt. 1790-1851). They came to Russia from Gersbach, today's part of Pirmasens.



The parents of Christina/Christiana Schneck (Gottlieb's mother-in-law!) were Johann Heinrich Schneck (1780-1864) and Katharina Luise Vollmer (1778-1820). He was born in Oberriexingen (Neckarkreis, Württemberg). 





2. Ludwig Schochenmaier (1830) was married to Katharina Kuprian (1833-1856). Her father was called Johannes Kuprian (1811-1858). It's amazing to notice that he had been born in Rohrbach in 1811. Her mother was called Margaretha Strasser (1813-????). She was born in Rohrbach too. Her grandfather was called Johan(n) Kuprian (1775 or 1779 - 1816). He was born in Germany in Sickingen in Württemberg.



As we know, the parents of her mother cannot be definitely located.

3. Christian Schochenmaier (1833) was married to Margaretha Korb (1836), sister of Elisabeth Korb (1834), wife of Gottlieb Schochenmaier (1828). So, it's the same, see Nr. 1.

4. August Schochenmaier (1835) was married to Margaretha Ochsner (1834). She was born on February 16, 1834 in Landau, Odessa, South Russia. Рer parents were Nikolaus Ochsner (25/05/1798) and Margaretha Weikum (1806). Nikolaus, as well as his parents, or grandparents of Margaretha, Johann Ochsner (1765-1809) and Klara Walter (1770) was born in Edenkoben (Palatinate).

Karte von Edenkoben




As for Margaretha's mum, Margaretha Weikum and her father Dietrich Weikum (1772) were born in Stebbach, around Heilbronn, from 1974 it belongs to Gemmingen.




Well, our suggestions seem to be justified. It's pretty the same space-time continuum:



If you can read properly this map, then you may recognize that to your left is Palatinate, to your right Würtemberg (Stuttgart) and in the bottom lies Alsace (now France, the borders are visible). 

In the first post about Gottlieb's wives I have already explained that it was Franconian dialect in the east and partly Swabian in the west of that area. Thus, it was a sort of intersection between the Franconian and Swabian dialects.  

The dialect is called Moselle Franconian (German Moselfränkisch) and it is a group of West Central German dialects, part of the Central Franconian language area. They are spoken in the southern Rhineland and along the course of the Moselle River, in the Siegerland in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia, throughout western Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland, in the south of the German-speaking Community of Belgium and in the neighbouring French département of Moselle (in Arrondissement of Boulay-Moselle).



So, this dialect covers four countries: Germany (f.ex. Trier), Luxembourg, Belgium (f.ex. Arlon) and France (f.ex. Thionville). 

So far, for today! Thank you very much for your attention.
  

Tuesday, February 17, 2015

Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Part 4: August's wife

We have already localized the spouses' parents of the first generation of the Schochenmaiers married in Russia:

Gottlieb's Katharina Huber and Elisabeth Korb;

Ludwig's Katharina Kuprian

Christian's Margaretha Korb

Today is the August Schochenmaier's turn. It seems to be that he had been the last son of Gottlieb Schochenmaier (about 1800). August was born around 1835, although sometimes 1825 can be found (for instance, on the FamilySearch). I firmly believe that it's not possible, as traditionally the eldest son got the forename of the father. August's death was registered on July 10, 1855 (according to Death Register in Worms). Thus, he died 7 months earlier than his older brother Ludwig (about 1830). As I have already mentioned before, we have no idea what happened to them, it might be a kind of epidemic disease or a Crimean War 1855-58.

Let me introduce his wife - Maria Margaretha Ochsner (pronounced /okhsna/ or /oxsner/ in dependence of dialects). She was born on February 16, 1834 in Landau, Odessa, South Russia.

Landau, Odessa


  • Region: Black Sea
  • Area: Odessa
  • District: Beresan
  • Founded: 1810
  • Religion: Catholic
  • Parish: Landau
  • German Name: Landau
  • Russian Name: Schirokolanivka or New Marianovka

or on that map




August Schochenmaier and Margaretha Ochsner married on May 31, 1854. So, they lived together one year and two months. It's terribly short(((

And I have an exciting news for you!!! For the first time, in the analyses like these, I have found a photo of this woman. It's unbelievable. We are lucky because after the August's death, she got married one more time and emigrated from Russia for the U.S.

The next year you may stumble upon is the year of her following marriage: on January 15, 1856. It means that she re-married 6 months later!!! Her second husband was Johann Jacob Griess (1834). In the Census 1858, both of them are to be found in Worms. They immigrated to the United States of America in 1874 (according to the U.S. Census 1900). They lived in Sutton, Nebraska. He passed away in 1905 and she - in 1917. Their life was full, I suggest, for they had 12 children:


from Ancestry

Did you notice that her last son was named August? Maybe he was named in honor of her first husband, who knows...

In the U.S., the Griess family made a picture which I am going to present below! Are your ready? One more time, just for stressing, it's the earliest picture of one of the wives of the first Schochenmaier generation who had got married in the Russian Empire. Well, here it is: 


(from the Ancestry tree of Cheryl Wach)

The face of Margaretha is not visible... 


But, as you understand, the oldest pictures are from those who had left for the New World)))

Well, let's reveal the origin or this lady.

Here's her birth register:



Upon it it is noticed that her parents were Nikolaus Ochsner (25/05/1798) and Margaretha Weikum (1806).

Nikolaus, as well as his parents, or grandparents of Margaretha, Johann Ochsner (1765-1809) and Klara Walter (1770) was born in Edenkoben (Palatinate).

Karte von Edenkoben

Edenkoben is a municipality in the Südliche Weinstraße district, in Rhineland-PalatinateGermany. It lies approximately halfway between Landau and Neustadt an der Weinstraße.

Did you got it? German Landau!!! and Margaretha was born in the Russian Landau. Thus, she belongs to the first settlers of Landau in Ukraine.

Some pictures of Edenkoben:













As for Margaretha's mum, Margaretha Weikum and her father Dietrich Weikum (1772) were born in Stebbach, around Heilbronn, from 1974 it belongs to Gemmingen.




By the way, it's in 73 km from Edenkoben. Culturally and linguistically, it's the same area.

Some pictures of Stebbach:















Mother of Margaretha, Karolina Meidinger (1774) was born in Haßloch, near to Edenkoben (in 15 km from it!).

Here it is in the winter:





Well, as you may conclude, we are still in the same time-space unanimity. And I think it's the most important in our genealogical research.

In the next post, I will sum up all localized points on the map and let's have a look, what we found out! See you.




Friday, January 30, 2015

Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Part 3: Christian's wife

We have already studied the wives' ancestors of Gottlieb Schochenmaier (ab. 1828) and those of Ludwig Schochenmaier (ab. 1830). Today, it's turn of Christian Schochenmaier (ab. 1833). He is my 4th great grand uncle.

I'm sure our American and Canadian Schochenmaiers will be very interested in this subject for they all are descendants of Christian whose two oldest sons Michael Schochenmaier (1859) and Jacob (1861) had left for the New World in 1887 and 1886 respectively.

But, on the one hand, I must confess that I will disappoint you as there isn't any new information for today, or, on the other hand, it might be exciting to get to know that Christian (1833) married Margaretha Korb (born on the 5th October 1836) who had been the younger sister of Elisabeth Korb (born on the 15th August 1834) - wife of his elder brother Gottlieb Schochenmaier (1828). On Elisabeth Korb I wrote the very first post about the ancestors of the Schochenmaiers' wives (click on Gottlieb Schochenmaier in the first line of this posting). Christian and Margaretha married on the 25th November 1858.

What does it mean? Not only Gottlieb (1828) and Christian (1833) were brothers, but their wives Elisabeth (1834) and Margaretha (1836) were sisters, too. I mean by that that we're related not only paternally but maternally as well. So, my congratulations, my dear remote relatives in the U.S. and Canada, we're more related than it was previously thought. Ta-dam!!!!

What do we know about Margaretha Korb? Actually, it's the same what we got to know about Elisabeth:

Her parents were Heinrich Korb (1809 - ????) and Christina Schneck (1817-1901). Heinrich Korb is to be found among the first newborn babies of "Russian" Rohrbach in year 1809!!! His parents were Heinrich Korb (1777-1836) and Salomea Elisabetha (maid name unknown, abt. 1790-1851). They came to Russia from Gersbach, today's part of Pirmasens.

Pirmasens is an independent town in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany, near the border with France. It is famous for the manufacture of shoes. You can see it on the map:

Karte von Pirmasens

Wow, it's almost the same area))) It's in 40 km from Brücken where the first wife of Gottlieb Schochenmaier had been born. 


Now, I understand why it's only 40 km))) Maybe there was no 40 km at all, it's just different levels of records in the archives, but the same area. It's important to notice that the family line of the Korbs can be traced back up to Johann Jacob Korb born in 1625 at the same area!

As there is nothing new, I'd like just to make a zoom on the family of the Korbs.



Margaretha had had two brothers and four sisters. On the Ancestry, you may find the aunt (from the maternal side) of Margaretha - Elizabeth Eberhardine Schneck (1805, Oberriexingen/Ludwigsburg - 1880, Jackson county, Ohio):

GnRuLW4yslAbC8TRrzHzVS0AZ2IfaLx046b0mFwzLOhJRGnHXbABMR6gpJ0TokUp

Just think of it, this lady belongs to the generation of our common forebear Gottlieb Schochenmaier (ab. 1800)!!! She moved to the United States with some of her children.

You also can find one of the Margaretha's cousins (from her paternal side): Gottlieb Korb (1840, Rohrbach - 1920, Odessa).

gottliebkorb2

He stayed in Russia.

Different lives, different times. Just amazing!

So, I'd like to stress one more time: The descendants of Gottlieb Schochenmaier /ab. 1828/ (divided between Germany and Russia) and the descendants of Christian Schochenmaier /ab. 1833/ (divided between Canada and USA) are related not only paternally but maternally as well. So, I congratulate you with such an amazing discovery!!! We're more related than it was previously thought. 


Thursday, January 15, 2015

Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Part 2: Ludwig's wife

It's time for the next Schochenmaier to find out where is his wife from.

Today we are going to research on Ludwig Schochenmaier (1830-1856). I suggest that today there is no offspring from him as he had only two daughters and died very early. His wife's name was Katharina Kuprian (1833-1856). They married on December 20, 1851, registered in Worms (Odessa area, South Russia).

First of all, it must be noticed that there are different ways to write that family name: Kupperyahn, Kuprijahn, etc.

Kuprians are to be found among the pioneer settlers of Rohrbach: http://www.grhs.org/villages/beresan/rohrbach.html 

Let's check who had been the parents of Katharina.

Her father was called Johannes Kuprian (1811-1858). It's amazing to notice that he had been born in Rohrbach in 1811. It means he was born there two years after it had been founded!!! Rohrbach is 206 years old.

Her mother was called Margaretha Strasser (1813-????). She was born in Rohrbach too.

Well, we must go deeper in order to trace their origin in Germany.

Let's find out who had been the grandparents of Katharina Kuprian from her father's side.

Her grandfather was called Johan(n) Kuprian (1775 or 1779 - 1816). He was born in Germany in Sickingen in Baden-Württemberg. The problem is that there are two Sickingen in Baden-Würtemberg. The Website of Zimbelmann Family states that he was born in Sickingen of Zollernalbkreis (it's Swabia).



It's here:

 Karte von Hechingen


But other resources (on Ancestry or FamilySearch) indicate the place of birth as Sickingen by Karlsruhe. It's a part of Flehingen and subsequently of Oberderdingen, a municipality in the district of Karlsruhe, in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is situated 30 km east of Karlsruhe, and 32 km west of Heilbronn.



You may notice that is precisely in the region where two wives of Gottlieb Schochenmaier (1828) had been from. You can see Stuttgart, Ludwigsburg, Pirmasens, and France (Strasbourg).











The grandmother of Katharina was called Elizabeth Barbara Geck (1779 or 1783-1858).

On the genealogical sites she is mostly to be found as a wife of Johann Georg Huber (1774-1850), born in Alsace and buried in Rohrbach. Sometimes it's a great mess. Her children from Mr. Kuprian are confounded with those from Mr. Huber and now it's difficult to say who is who.

According to the Genealogy of Zimbelmann Website, she was born in Mudjesch, Frankfurt am Main area, Hessia. I checked everywhere but I didn't find such a place in Germany. However it's true that there was a real diaspora of the Gecks in Upper Hessia, namely in Friedberg and Ober-Wöllstadt. But it's in 135 km from where her husband was born... Ooops, it's our first incoincidence)))

Let's find out who had been the grandparents of Katharina Kuprian from her mother's side.

Margaretha's maiden name was Strasser, sometimes Straßer. Her mum was Margaretha (1790-1850) as well. There is no information about that woman. Her father was called Johann Georg Strasser (1785-1867). They married in 1812. On FamilySearch , it's noticed that he had been born in Falbenthal, Bavaria, although without any references...

It's here:



It's about 140 km from Stuttgart.



According to the history, it's OK, because the origin of surname is to be marked in Bavaria:



Actually, it's still possible that they shared the same culture and dialect. How can I prove it?

If you look for "Johann Strasser" born between 1780 and 1795 and having wife with Margaret as forenames, you'll get at least ten couples which are mostly to be located in the areas adjacent to those where the precedent spouses of the Schochenmaiers can be found.

For example:

in Wiesenbach (Johann Friedrich Strasser and Maria Margaretha Frank)






in Queidersbach (Johann und Margaretha Strasser):

Karte von Queidersbach



in Neckarsbischofsheim (Johann Philipp Strasser and Margaretha Friederika Meier)



and so on...

Well, as you can conclude it's the same area where came the other relatives of the Schochenmaiers from.

So far for today, next time I will post about the next brother.

Thanks a lot for reading)))

Sunday, December 21, 2014

Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Part 1: Gottliebs' wives

Trying to understand where we come from, we may reach our limits: no documents, no archives, no information, no hints concerning any of the Schochenmaiers... We hold officially documentary data on our forefathers from the 1850s in Rohrbach (Odessa, South Russia), we can approximately suggest years of their fathers' birth who might arrive from Germany in 1820s (no direct documented traces but certificates of their marriages or death already from the same Rohrbach!) and we suppose that they stem from Gottlieb Schochenmaier born in Germany in 1800s (no data at all - neither direct nor indirect!).

But there are some indirect methods to be used to dig up our past.

Taking into account the history of Germany, namely feudal disunity up to the 19th century, it's logical to assume that our ancestors would marry a fellow villager, a neighbor, anybody who they could communicate with, who they speak the same dialect with, and who they share a similar background with. It does concern the language, the religion, the traditions and the area as well.

Let's check up if the history of the earliest spouses and life partners can help us to discover more. I am going to localize and map them all together.

1. Well, for Gottlieb Schochenmaier (ab. 1800, my 5th great grandfather) there is no registered spouse.

2. His first son Gottlieb Schochenmaier (ab. 1828, my 4th great grandfather!!!) was married twice. On October 12, 1854 he was married at a registry of Lustdorf (today's Chernomorka, north-eastern district of Odessa) to Katharina Huber. As we may conclude from the documents she died two years later: on March 24, 1856. By the way, there were lots of deaths between 1855 and 1856 possibly because of the Crimean War 1853-1856. After she died, Gottlieb married Elisabeth Korb, the date is unknown.

On my family tree, it looks like follows (click to maximize):



 What do we know about those two ladies?

Katharina Huber was born on June 26, 1836 in Brücken (Pfalz). It is an Ortsgemeinde – a municipality belonging to a Verbandsgemeinde, a kind of collective municipality – in the Kusel district in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany. It's here:



As you can see on the map above, it's to the North from Alsace or Lorraine!

Her parents were Mich(a)el Huber and Margaretha Blees. They married on May 23rd, 1823 in the same Bruecken. It seems to be that they were Catholics, although it could be explained by the fact that at that time they belonged to Bavaria and Bavaria was always Catholic.

The dialect, they speak in Brücken, is called Moselle Franconian (German Moselfränkisch) and it is a group of West Central German dialects, part of the Central Franconian language area. They are spoken in the southern Rhineland and along the course of the Moselle River, in the Siegerland in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia, throughout western Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland, in the south of the German-speaking Community of Belgium and in the neighbouring French département of Moselle (in Arrondissement of Boulay-Moselle).



So, this dialect covers four countries: Germany (f.ex. Trier), Luxembourg, Belgium (f.ex. Arlon) and France (f.ex. Thionville).

Gottlieb and Katharina had only one boy: Johann Georg Schochenmaier (1855). No info about him...

The distribution map of absolute share of this surname demonstrates that it can be a place to meet lots of Hubers:




Elisabeth Korb was born on August 15, 1834 in Rohrbach (Beresan colony, near Odessa, South Russia). Her parents were Heinrich Korb (1809 - ????) and Christina Schneck (1817-1901). Heinrich Korb is to be found among the first newborn babies of "Russian" Rohrbach in year 1809!!! His parents were Heinrich Korb (1777-1836) and Salomea Elisabetha (maid name unknown, abt. 1790-1851). They came to Russia from Gersbach, today's part of Pirmasens.

Pirmasens is an independent town in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany, near the border with France. It is famous for the manufacture of shoes. You can see it on the map:

Karte von Pirmasens

Wow, it's almost the same area))) It's in 40 km from Brücken where the first wife of Gottlieb Schochenmaier had been born. So, the theory works!!!

The distribution of that surname shows the principal concentrations to be found in Germany:

Absolute Verteilung des Namens 'Korb'


 The parents of Christina/Christiana Schneck (Gottlieb's mother-in-law!) were John Henry Schneck (1780-1864) and Katharina Luise Vollmer (1778-1820). John Henry is spelled like that because he immigrated to the New World and changed his name. I suggest he was Johann Heinrich))). He died on May 19, 1864 in Shelby (Richland, Ohio). But he was born in Oberriexingen (Neckarkreis, Württemberg):

Karte von Oberriexingen 

It's in 125 km from Pirmasens, for instance, and very beautiful:





His parents had lived at the same place: Gottlieb Schneck (1735-1798) and Katharina Margarete Rugart (1741-1816). They married in 1760.

The distribution map of the absolute share of the Schneck family name proves that they did origin from the same area:



 On my FamilySearch tree, you can see them all together:



So far for today, it was about Gottlieb Schochenmaier's wives. As you may conclude, there is a sort of spatial continuum between them. They all are coming from the area where Franconian dialects were spoken:



or



The women were born on the territory where the Central (Moselle, Rhine) and or possibly High (South, Upper) Franconian were spoken. If Gottlieb married them, it means they could easily understand each other.

In the next post, after having told you about Gottlieb (abt. 1828), who's my direct bloodline, I will present the wife of Ludwig Schochenmaier (abt. 1830), then that of Christian (abt. 1833) and finally the spouse of August Schochenmaier (abt. 1835).  As you know, the descendants of Ludwig and August are not to be found today, either they had only girls or no children. But, for our American and Canadian Schochenmaiers I'd like to say that I have a surprise for them. Spoiler: we are more related than you thought))) Guess why!

Merry Christmas, my dear relatives!!!!!!!!!!!!!