Mapping spread of the oldest Schochenmaiers

Today I'd like to map one more time the oldest Schochenmaiers (which can be found on FamilySearch) after we "erased" Leopold Schahenmeyer from our family tree. By the "oldest" Schochenmaiers I mean the Schochenmaiers before the relocation to the South Russia (1820s?)

It looks like follows:

I am not sure if we can trace the spread of the family or find any system. However, we could recognize:

1. In the middle, there is Maria Schochenmeyer(in), actually the oldest one (highlighted with blue).

2. The cluster 1 (highlighted with green) is to be seen to the North where there were five families within three areas:

Stuttgart 1690s-1720s
Ludwigsburg 1770s-1800s
Heilbronn 1800s-1860s

3. The cluster 2 (highlighted with yellow) can be found to the South where there were 4 families in the limits of

Freiburg (1730s)
Herbolzheim (1790s)
Lahr (1750s-1790s)

Should we conclude that there had been two spread branches of Schochenmaiers: one in Baden (South: Freiburg - Lahr), another in Württemberg (North: Stuttgart - Heilbronn)? I think the splitting of the family is not so visible, we are just trying to reconstruct the distribution of the Schochenmaiers and we do not possess all data from the church records. That is why it's only one of the possibilities.

One thing is clear that the only candidate for relocation, in the terms of time!, is the family part from the Heilbronn area. The same idea is supported by another Schochenmaiers who are actually living in Bavaria (Germany) and St. Petersburg (Russia). It's important to notice that in Heilbronn, the Swabian dialect was and is speaking, such an interesting fact corresponds with the statement of my great grandmother who said that we had spoken the Swabian German.

I don't know if it's enough to pick this theory. Let's advance!!

  

Spouses' ancestors of our earliest Schochenmaiers. Part 2: Ludwig's wife

It's time for the next Schochenmaier to find out where is his wife from.

Today we are going to research on Ludwig Schochenmaier (1830-1856). I suggest that today there is no offspring from him as he had only two daughters and died very early. His wife's name was Katharina Kuprian (1833-1856). They married on December 20, 1851, registered in Worms (Odessa area, South Russia).

First of all, it must be noticed that there are different ways to write that family name: Kupperyahn, Kuprijahn, etc.

Kuprians are to be found among the pioneer settlers of Rohrbach: http://www.grhs.org/villages/beresan/rohrbach.html 

Let's check who had been the parents of Katharina.

Her father was called Johannes Kuprian (1811-1858). It's amazing to notice that he had been born in Rohrbach in 1811. It means he was born there two years after it had been founded!!! Rohrbach is 206 years old.

Her mother was called Margaretha Strasser (1813-????). She was born in Rohrbach too.

Well, we must go deeper in order to trace their origin in Germany.

Let's find out who had been the grandparents of Katharina Kuprian from her father's side.

Her grandfather was called Johan(n) Kuprian (1775 or 1779 - 1816). He was born in Germany in Sickingen in Baden-Württemberg. The problem is that there are two Sickingen in Baden-Würtemberg. The Website of Zimbelmann Family states that he was born in Sickingen of Zollernalbkreis (it's Swabia).

It's here:

 


But other resources (on Ancestry or FamilySearch) indicate the place of birth as Sickingen by Karlsruhe. It's a part of Flehingen and subsequently of Oberderdingen, a municipality in the district of Karlsruhe, in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is situated 30 km east of Karlsruhe, and 32 km west of Heilbronn.



You may notice that is precisely in the region where two wives of Gottlieb Schochenmaier (1828) had been from. You can see Stuttgart, Ludwigsburg, Pirmasens, and France (Strasbourg).











The grandmother of Katharina was called Elizabeth Barbara Geck (1779 or 1783-1858).

On the genealogical sites she is mostly to be found as a wife of Johann Georg Huber (1774-1850), born in Alsace and buried in Rohrbach. Sometimes it's a great mess. Her children from Mr. Kuprian are confounded with those from Mr. Huber and now it's difficult to say who is who.

According to the Genealogy of Zimbelmann Website, she was born in Mudjesch, Frankfurt am Main area, Hessia. I checked everywhere but I didn't find such a place in Germany. However it's true that there was a real diaspora of the Gecks in Upper Hessia, namely in Friedberg and Ober-Wöllstadt. But it's in 135 km from where her husband was born... Ooops, it's our first incoincidence)))

Let's find out who had been the grandparents of Katharina Kuprian from her mother's side.

Margaretha's maiden name was Strasser, sometimes Straßer. Her mum was Margaretha (1790-1850) as well. There is no information about that woman. Her father was called Johann Georg Strasser (1785-1867). They married in 1812. On FamilySearch , it's noticed that he had been born in Falbenthal, Bavaria, although without any references...

It's here:



It's about 140 km from Stuttgart.



According to the history, it's OK, because the origin of surname is to be marked in Bavaria:

Actually, it's still possible that they shared the same culture and dialect. How can I prove it?

If you look for "Johann Strasser" born between 1780 and 1795 and having wife with Margaret as forenames, you'll get at least ten couples which are mostly to be located in the areas adjacent to those where the precedent spouses of the Schochenmaiers can be found.

For example:

in Wiesenbach (Johann Friedrich Strasser and Maria Margaretha Frank)






in Queidersbach (Johann und Margaretha Strasser):





in Neckarsbischofsheim (Johann Philipp Strasser and Margaretha Friederika Meier)



and so on...

Well, as you can conclude it's the same area where came the other relatives of the Schochenmaiers from.

So far for today, next time I will post about the next brother.

Thanks a lot for reading)))

Johann Schochenmajer married on August 9, 1718

Hello again,

I'm still searching for the oldest Schochenmaiers throughout FamilySearch. Last month I stumbled upon a marriage certificate of the 18th century. Therefrom you may get to know that Johann Schochenmajer married to Maria Christina Dobler on the 9th August 1718.

Here it is:

As soon as I found this Johann, I remembered about the post on the second oldest Schochenmaiers where I presented one Johann Schochenmajer who had got a daughter Johanna Christina Schochenmajer. I am still thinking if these two Johanns could be the same person. 

1. Both of them have the same family name spelling. 

2. The wife's name of the first Johann is Maria Christina Dobler. The wife's name of the second Johann is Anna Maria, without any maid last name. Earlier it happened that the first triple name of Anna Maria Christina could be recorded as Maria Christina or Anna Maria. But I'm not sure about it. 

3. The year of marriage for the first couple is 1718, while Johanna Christina Schochenmajer had been born in 1716. On the one hand, these two dates are very close to each other. However, on the other hand, it means two years gap before getting married. The latter may signify that if it was the same Johann, then  he could marry for the second time. 

4. Unfortunately, there is no place-name in the marriage certificate. But, according to the birth certificate of Johanna Christina Schochenmajer, she was born in Kornwestheim - to the north by Stuttgart. Could it be valid for the first Johann? 

5. The wife's maid name of Johann Schochenmajer was Maria Christina Dobler. Her father was called as Johann Conrad Dobler. A very short research on this family name allows to affirm that such a surname was historically to be found throughout the 17th and 18th century to the east of Stuttgart (for example, in Waiblingen).  

 

Well, almost the same time and the same area. It's very possible that those two Johann are the one person only who got married twice. 

If so, we come up to the overlapping of archive documents and get more information on our ancestry. 

The Schochenmaiers' relocation of the 17th century discovered?

Playing with the spellings of Schochenmaiers, I stumbled upon a woman with the name of Maria Schochenmeyerin who, being married to Michaele Dettling, got a baby Christoferus Dettling in 1676 in Altheim.

1. The forename of Michaele Dettling is written in a correct way, it's just a south dialectal form of the full name Michael that expresses any aspect of being "small". It might be read like Mikhele (compare with the Swiss Company name "Nestle" - small nest);

2. The spelling of Maria Schochenmeyerin corresponds to that of Sara Schachenmeyerin where I explained that "It's not a problem at all. In the Southern Germany until the 18th century (and in the Bavarian dialect till now!) the female family names got ending -in." So, we may conclude that father of Maria had had the surname of Schochenmeyer.

3. If Maria bore a child in 1676, she could be born between 1640s and 50s. After I thought of it, it caught my imagination. What if this is Maria Schochenmeyer daughter of Leopold Schochenmeyer from my posting on the oldest Schochenmaiers ever!!! Maria Schochenmeyer had been born in 1652 and thus she could get a baby in 1676 being just 24 years old at that time. There is a time coincidence but what about the spatial continuum?

4. The family of Maria (1652), namely Leopold Schochenmeyer and Anna Saueber had lived in Britzingen, it's South Baden near Freiburg, today on the border with France but at that time it was German Alsace (biggest towns are Straßburg and Mülhausen). The today's Maria had got her child (1676) in the catholic Altheim of the Schwarzwaldkreis within Württemberg. Where is it?

On Wikipedia you may find three different Altheims:

Altheim, Biberach, a municipality in the district of Biberach, Baden-Württemberg

Altheim (Alb), a municipality in the district of Alb-Donau, Baden-Württemberg

Altheim (Ehingen), a municipality in the district of Alb-Donau, Baden-Württemberg

All of them are not far from each other, but it's not Schwarzwald. Schwarzwald might be here:



On the net you may find a hole list of areas which made part of Schwarzwaldkreis:

Below are the Oberamt cities for the Schwarzwaldkreis area of Württemberg: 
Oberamt Balingen 
Oberamt Calw 
Oberamt Freudenstadt 
Oberamt Herrenberg 
Oberamt Horb 
Oberamt Nagold 
Oberamt Neuenbürg 
Oberamt Nürtingen 
Oberamt Oberndorf 
Oberamt Reutlingen 
Oberamt Rottenburg 
Oberamt Rottweil 
Oberamt Spaichingen 
Oberamt Sulz 
Oberamt Tübingen 
Oberamt Tuttlingen 
Oberamt Urach


Under Oberamt Horb you may find the following:

Parish Cities/towns for Oberamt Horb

Horb 
Ahldorf 
Altheim !!!!!!!!
Baisingen 

.........

So, we found out there there was another Altheim in Schwarzwald, that is a part of Horb today.

Horb am Neckar is a town in the southwest of the German state of Baden-Württemberg. It is located on the Neckar river, between Offenburg to the west (about 56 kilometres (35 mi) away) and Tübingen to the east (about 29 kilometres (18 mi) away).

In addition to the main town of Horb, the municipality includes a number of communities which are recognised within the terms of the 1970s Baden-Württemberg local government reform, that is they have an elected council and council chairman. These are Ahldorf, Altheim, Betra, Bildechingen, Bittelbronn, Dettensee, Dettingen, Dettlingen, Dießen, Grünmettstetten, Ihlingen, Isenburg, Mühlen, Mühringen, Nordstetten, Rexingen and Talheim, the last of which is made up of the formerly independent parishes of Obertalheim and Untertalheim. These are referred to formally (for example, in postal purposes) as Horb-Ahldorf, Horb-Altheim, etc. 

The history of Horb is relatively boring because from 1381 to 1806 it belonged to Austria, and that's why it was officially Catholic:

Further Austria or Anterior Austria (German: Vorderösterreich, formerly die Vorlande (pl.)) was the collective name for the early possessions of the House of Habsburg in the former Swabian stem duchy of south-western Germany, including territories in the Alsaceregion west of the Rhine and in Vorarlberg.

While the territories of Further Austria west of the Rhine and south of Lake Constance were gradually lost to France and the Swiss Confederacy, those in Swabia and Vorarlberg remained under Habsburg control until the Napoleonic Era.

Here is the Württemberg map of the 17th century. The Austrian territory is highlighted with brown:

Some pictures of Altheim in Horb:

The Catholic Church of St. Maria's Birth does exist till now. Who knows, maybe Maria Schochenmeyer christened their children here: 

 It's only 120 km (75 miles) from Britzingen where she probably was born.

To go on foot will take 25 hours, thus it might be half day by carriage or 4-5 hours of horse riding. It seems pretty realistic. If it's true, then we have found the very first example of the Schochenmaier's relocation!!! It's not so far as Stuttgart and Heilbronn, but it's already a sort of trend ... 

I should add that on November 1677 Maria will get another boy called Conrad:

but before those two boys she had got a girl Catharina Detling on the 29th March 1671: 

So, she had two boys Conrad and Christofer who were Dettling as their father Michaele Dettling. 

The surname distribution map proves that the highest rate of Dettling family name is precisely in Horb a.N.: 

The bearers of this surname organized a real club dedicated to their genealogical research: http://www.dettling-familiengemeinschaft.de/index.shtml

  I think I'll contact them, maybe they have any information on our Maria Schochenmeyer. We can't be sure that it's the same Maria from Britzingen but it's so suitable that can be true)))

Thanks for your attention and interest. 

Johannes Schochenmaier (1719) and his brother

Let me introduce other Schochenmaiers from our past:

Johannes Schochenmaier was born on 4th May 1719 in Heumaden to Johann and Christina Elisabetha Schochenmaier.

Johannes is notorious by spelling of his family name. I mean he's the first whose name was written SCHOCHENMAIER. The majority of actually living Schochenmaiers are bearing that version of the surname.

What about Heumaden? Where is it? 

Today it's a part of Stuttgart:

Heumaden is a district of Stuttgart. It is located southeast of the city center and is the largest neighborhood in the borough Sillenbuch. The name comes from "Heu-" (in English: hay) plus "-mahd" (in English: mow); the coat of arms shows the crossed hayfork and the rake:

Do you remember the second theory of our family name's origin, when I speculated that "schochen+maier" could be an occupational name denoting "chiefs or heads of those who ricked /cocked or stacked/ the hay"? It doesn't prove anything, but as coincidence it's pretty interesting.

Herewith you'll find some nice pictures of that place:

Turn you attention to the year of the house!!!

In 1635 the plague raged in Heumaden. 86 persons died. In 1658 a school was established. In the French war of 1796 Heumaden was attacked and plundered seven times by Austria.

If Johannes Schochenmaier was born in 1719, so his father Johann Schochenmaier could be born between 1680s-90s.

In other archives, we may find out that Johannes got a brother a bit later: Johann Friderich Schochenmeyer who was born on 18th March 1721.

It's already another spelling!!!

However, it sounds strangely ... Father's name is Johann and his children names are Johannes and Johann Friderich. Maybe "Johann" was just an iterative part inherited from the father? And the second boy was Friderich.

Have you noticed that there is no Heumaden for the second son, just Stuttgart, if the archives would have reflected another level of the area...

So far for today...

Second oldest Schackenmeyrs

Today, after we found out where the oldest SchAchenmeyers had lived, is the turn of second oldest SchAchenmaiers in order to reconstruct the context and continuity, as we did it with the oldest SchOchenmayers and the second oldest SchOchenmajers.

Well, let me introduce the second oldest SchAchenmaiers: their last name was spelled as Schackenmeyrs. I am not sure, but I think the difference between "ch" and "ck" is not considerable, especially at the time when only clergymen could write and they recorded names during the baptismal services.

Here's the notice on it:

So, Catharina Dorothea had been born to Simon Edhmueller and Katharina Schackenmeyr (I've changed the spelling of names from their Latin versions /casus dativus -is for masculine and -ae for feminine/ into German ones). She was baptized on the 18th August 1722 in Wiebglingen, region of Baden. We may conclude that Katharina Schackenmeyr herself had been born in 1690s-1700s. NB: The names are not pronouncedly Jewish... 

 Let's analyze this data in time and space, as usually))) I hope you're not tired of it... 

Where is Wieblingen? 

Contemporary, Wieblingen is a part of Heidelberg city (since 1920). 

  

It's in the west of city, on the left bank of the River Neckar. 

Some pictures of its places:

And below you'll see the Old Catholic Church. In the archives is noticed, that Katharina Dorothea was baptized in the Sankt Bartolomaeus Catholic Church. Here it is:   

How far is it from Gingen (where the first SchAchenmeyers in 1630s-1740s were found: Isaac and Sara). It's about 140 km (85 miles). The way lies through Ludwigsburg, Stuttgart area, Heilbronn, Neckarsulm... all places that we already know: 

Reading about the history of that area, I stumbled upon a very interesting place-name:

Many of the Heidelberg villages have emerged from the Frankish times in the 6th time Century. They are first mentioned in the 8th Century in the Lorsch Codex – Neuenheim and Handschuhsheim in 765, Rohrbach in 766, Wieblingen and Kirchheim in 767 and Bergheim in 769. Those are villages of Heidelberg which, looking back to several centuries ago, are older than the city itself.

As you see, they cite Rohrbach!!! The problem is there are lots of Rohrbachs in Germany(((

What happened to Wiebling in the beginning of 18th century

I quote from Wikipaedia:

To strengthen his dynasty, Frederick arranged the marriage of his daughter Liselotte to Philip I, Duke of Orléans, brother of Louis XIV, king of France. In 1685, after the death of Charles Louis' son, Elector Charles II, Louis XIV laid claim to his sister-in-law's inheritance. The Germans rejected the claim, in part because of religious differences between local Protestants and the French Catholics, as the Protestant Reformation had divided the peoples of Europe. The War of the Grand Alliance ensued. In 1689, French troops took the town and castle, bringing nearly total destruction to the area in 1693. As a result of the destruction due to repeated French invasions related to the War of the Palatinate Succession coupled with severe winters, thousands of Protestant German Palatines emigrated from the lower Palatinate in the early 18th century. They fled to other European cities and especially to London (where the refugees were called "the poor Palatines"). In sympathy for the Protestants, in 1709–1710, Queen Anne's government arranged transport for nearly 6,000 Palatines to New York. Others were transported to Pennsylvania. They worked their passage and later settled in the English colonies.

 

Emigrants Leaving the Palatinate for America 

Source: Imhof, Andreas Lazarus von. Neu-eröffneter historischer Bildersaal, Vol. 9: Geschichten, welche sich unter Carolo VI, von dem Jahr 1723 auf das Jahr 1733 zugetragen. Nuremberg: Buggel, 1735. Courtesy of PD Dr. Helmut Schmahl, Mainz University.

In 1720, after assigning a major church for exclusively Catholic use, religious conflicts with the mostly Protestant inhabitants of Heidelberg caused the Roman Catholic Prince-Elector Charles III Philip to transfer his residence to nearby Mannheim. 

Being aware of those two waves of migration to England and to the future U.S., we could explain the presence of some Schochenmaiers either in the UK or in the USA prior to migration from Russia in 1880s.

Here you can read about the Palatinate Emigration: http://home.comcast.net/~harnessfamily/History/History11.htm

The last (but not the least) thing to be mentioned is the fact that in 1735 (15 years later!!!) Eva Thorodea Schachenmayer (with "ch" and "ay") got married to Simon Damm in the Sankt Bartolomaeus Church and in 1780s (60 years later!!!) in this Wieblingen we will meet the whole family of "Schachenmeyer" (with "ch" but "ey"). Bernard Schachenmeyer and Magdalena Angstmann got five children from 1788 to 1800 in Eppelheim village, near Wieblingen, and baptized them in the same Sankt Bartolomaeus Catholic Church. Is it a coincidence? I think it's very probable that it's the same line of the Schachenmaiers. But it's still not clear if they are related to the Schachenmaiers from Gingen...